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Jeblad (discutercontributions)

Note that voting in general are several subtopics, and people mess them up. Even maintenance messages are a kind of voting, even if only one person leave the vote. I believe maintenance messages are an especially good example of why we need microvoting.

Assume that one person put a maintenance message on an article about spell-checking. The vote will then be whatever he put there. The next one to inspect the page should then be able to cast a vote on the spell-checking dimension. When the concensus reach a certain level, then the article can be put in a category for articles with dismissable spell-check templates.

I wonder if there should be one maintenance template, and that spell-checking is one dimension. Another dimension is verifiability, and a third is formatting. That is the template sint "spell-checking", it is "maintenance".

Another example is cases where you pose a question to the community. It should be possible to ask the community to chose on scale along a dimension, and the answer should neatly accumulate as part of the answer together with some confidence level.

A third example could be giving credits to a discussion post. That should be fairly easy to implement on Flow. In this case it is important to add some cost. One simple option is to simply limit the total number of credits a person can give or take, thereby making it important for people to use the credits wisely. This is the Slashdot model.

I have a paper somewhere about the importance to connect such in-site voting with some cost. At wikipedia the cost could be accumulated through some typing measure, but it is also possible to assign credits on random. Both works. It is also important to check how well voting from any user match up with a conrol group, if there are to much deviation the users opinions should be ranked lower. This is a bit dangerous, as it is important to keep deviant voices, but not let them be destructive.

Trizek (discutercontributions)

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Actually I haven't considered those cases.

My point is just to get a quick feedback from a reader, such as "is that help page overall clear enough", "do you overall describe doing [action] as easy" or "you have done [action]. Do you plan to do it again on a different topic?". The goal is to quickly collect some information about user interactions.

It is a yes/no system, based on limited campaigns, with a dismissal system to avoid multiple votes from the same person and a spam effect for advanced users. Keep it simple is, I think, a key point of success. Have scales is an advanced feature for a macro-survey system.

Use the micro-surveys for maintenance is an approach I haven't considered. I hope the surveying system - if created - to be flexible enough to allow that. Between you and me, I would focus first on having understandable maintenance explanations in the banners, so that newcomers and readers can help maintenance

Concerning credits on discussions, I've created a task to surface how many thanks have been received by a given Structured discussions comment.

And concerning giving credit, that's a recurring discussion. All experiments about giving credit for writing or maintenance have been failures. I think it would be much better to give credit on users' reputation, because they are nice and altruists.

Jeblad (discutercontributions)

On feedback from a reader: Do you want to use this for asking a single user a question, and just make an easy way for him to reply?

On credits: I think you misunderstood me. Credits is what you must have to be able to up-/downvote someone or something. Active users might be given credits so they can vote, without credits you can't vote at all. If you don't use your credits within let's say a week you will loose them. The nice thing with this is that people tend to be very careful with credits they are given, and usually don't use them for trolling.

I am very much interested in voting used for maintenance, as it is now articles are often stuck with a maintenance message because someone (usually the one tagging an article) believe it should stay that way, without giving any further explanation. By using voting the message could be moved out of the article and into a separate system, where it could be removed if there are no support for the claim.

Trizek (discutercontributions)

On feedback from a reader, asking a single user a question would be good enough, but give them a way to explain the choice would be nice (even with just a link to a page where that user can leave a message). The overall goal is to have a quick opinion about something, no more. For instance, for a given Beta feature, there is already pages and other identified options to leave an extended feedback.

Got it for credits. However, I'm not convinced by that kind of system: you have to be "part of the gang" to express yourself. This is not an inclusion loop and I think it increases the difficulty of being part of the community. On the contrary, have a way to show your support to anyone would be a nice thing. I'm more for extended thanks for instance, where you can explain the reason of a thank to someone (for instance to a newcomer who has added sources to a Wikipedia article or new images to a Wikivoyage page). Or show the number of thanks on a given comment.

Concerning maintenance, wouldn't it be more interesting if the maintenance banner explains how to fix the issue and, when done, remove it? Or explain where to contest that banner (leave a message on the talk page and take action after X days)?

Jeblad (discutercontributions)

I would very much like to kill the maintenance templates altogether. The only time they are necessary are for specific issues, "this sentence is wrong", but then they are also wrong as they don't go away when the sentence is fixed.

Trizek (discutercontributions)

Have a to-do list with points to solve to check on the side of a wikipage I edit would be lovely.

Also, have clear explanations for newbies is a key point. Following that discussion, I've worked back on an old project of mine: add explanations on how to handle a maintenance template on the template without overloading it. It is a equivalent of your "Wikifisering" template. My example does the same as your template ( I had no idea of that before that message): have more information about wikiflying and an invitation to remove the template on a drop-down menu.

But when I compare the two banners, I think the one on no.wp is a bit confusing for newcomers, using a lot of jargon and wikitext markup. French Wikipedia has done a big work on refactoring Help pages and newcomers first steps and we are still working on it. Is there an equivalent effort on no.wp?

Jeblad (discutercontributions)

He he… At nowiki "difficult" seems to be the correct solution.

Trizek (discutercontributions)

Like anywhere else... :/

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