Discussion utilisateur:Heralder/Archives 2017

Wiki Commons

@Heralder : most grateful for your attention to improving the heraldry on l'Armorial britannique. Please note the following pointers, just by way of helping improve Wiki's heraldic representations :

1. Sir Angus Ogilvy's arms comprise his patrilineal arms (differenced) surrounded by the Royal Victorian Order circlet, surmounted by a knight's helm but without supporters (to which only the Earl of Airlie is entitled).

2. your Talk Page : Parair is spot on - it is categorically not good English...!
Such arms are blazoned as being "impaled" and therefore should be described as  : Austria and Burgundy (Ancient) Impaled or similarly appropriate wording.
(NB. how to get such esoteric points across when I have been summarily blocked from Wiki Commons by Jcb for pointing out similar & indeed far more serious deficiencies ref heraldry?) - give up maybe!

3. Other pointers (for consideration) regarding the heraldic illustrations as, for example, currently shown on l'Armorial britannique :

1. Prince Harry's arms could & should display the Royal Victorian Order circlet as an external ornament (thank you for creating this) ;
2. Lady Sarah Chatto's arms should be displayed on a lozenge without a coronet above ;
3. The 2nd Duke of Gloucester's arms should be augmented with the arms of the Order of St. John (of which he is Grand Prior) in chief - his full achievement really ought also to display the Badge of the Order of St. John behind the shield ;
4. The 6th and 7th Earls of Harewood's patrilineal arms surmounted by an Earl's coronet should be surrounded by the Garter and British Empire circlets respectively.

Hope of help!

Ciao, L'honorable (discuter) 31 janvier 2017 à 03:40 (CET)

¿“Enough is enough” - que pasa?

Salut Heralder  : I have seen your latest update of HRH The Earl and Countess of Wessex's arms, which are good but not quite right : . Quid pro quo, what action has there been regarding my having blocked from Wiki Commons without right of reply, NB. cannot edit own talk page : 23:59, 21 January 2017 Jcb (talk | contribs) blocked L'honorable (talk | contribs) with an expiration time of indefinite (account creation blocked, email disabled, cannot edit own talk page) (Enough is enough - https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons%3AAdministrators%27_noticeboard%2FUser_problems&type=revision&diff=230527622&oldid=230464798) - trop c'est trop ?

Can you help me, since it strikes me (and no doubt others) as somewhat reactionary and heavy-handed, almost presidential as we now know it! for Wiki Commons to carry on like this... What do you think? L'honorable (discuter) 2 février 2017 à 01:06 (CET)
PS. also it now states Category:Commons users indefinitely blocked in February 2017 whereas it previously stated Category:Commons users indefinitely blocked in January 2017. We all know which was originally correct, so why has it been changed (because I have not been blocked in February - impossible because I am already blocked indefinitely in January)? L'honorable (discuter) 2 février 2017 à 03:57 (CET)
PPS. Ah! I can see one reason why!! When on dodgy ground, continue to re-emphasise the original point in the hope that others buy into it..?
PPPS. the fact remains that this hullabaloo blew up over the legal right to bear arms and display chivalric insignia, matters which have yet to be satisfactorily resolved.

Je veux faire un plaidoyer du bon sens : pas à poursuivre des blocages qui facilement pourraient être interprétés en tant qu'une punition vengeuse plutôt que les déguisés en fait de protection des Wikis! Semble raisonable, n'est-ce pas? RSVP Heralder, merci à toi. L'honorable (discuter) 2 février 2017 à 04:24 (CET)

Armorial britannique

¡Hola Heralder! Thank you for all your improvements to heraldry on Wiki, which are great. I hesitate to criticise at all because ! a: the word criticise is nowadays often misunderstood for being negative, whereas it should be regarded in its proper sense, namely : critic ; b: advising Wiki Commons about flagrant inaccuracies and unlawful inconsistencies to do with heraldry and insignia has proven problematic for me ¡ L'honorable (discuter) 5 février 2017 à 01:37 (CET)
PS. @Heralder : I should be most grateful were you to feel able to declare your opinion as to my being blocked by Jcb on Wiki Commons? RSVP.

De L'honorable

 Heralder : I don't believe we have yet had the opportunity to liaise? I have no doubt we would both much enjoy doing so, given the opportunity.

I trust also that you find the various armorials which I have been attending to are now in a great deal better state than they were previously? I wholeheartedly support all accurate contributions to Wiki, and should much like to foster relations with those who think likewise.

Let's be in touch again soon. Best, L'honorable (discuter) 23 mars 2017 à 03:59 (CET)
PS. Apart from having added considerably in the first instance to what was a most substandard article, I have also corrected & recorrected various points of accuracy in the article about l'Armorial britannique. There have been so many subsequent reversions that it would take a lawyer to work through the minefield of who did what when! All I can protest! (given that you have done me no favours with regards to my being blocked on Wiki Commons despite your using my information) is that my edits derive from a mine of knowledge on the subject & should be delighted to make friends on Wiki so as to enhance its content further : right now we seem to be oscillating back & forth like a pendulum - correct one minute & incorrect the next.
PPS. so I never had understood why some editors delete carte blanche without considering what would be more appropriate to put in its place? To me this provides ammo to those who look back casually without taking due care & attention. Unfortunately it seems to me there is a lack of due care & attention on Wiki, and much more of anger (as to why edits were reverted). Anyway, I should be very much obliged if you could reply - many thanks.
PPPS. maybe am I too honest, but how is it that some edits to articles seem to happen without any record?
PPPPS. I realise this must sound dim, but surely it is possible to provide good knowledge to Wiki (without having to gen up on every latest wheeze)? L'honorable (discuter) 23 mars 2017 à 04:09 (CET)

qv. Armorial britannique you have cited existence douteuse et contesté : I presume this refers to Dr. Claire Booth? In which case it is a misleading statement. Everything can be contested of course. What is in doubt, though? The fact that she descends from the Booths (I can show you the pedigree, if you like). I have already stated categorically that there has been no formal arrangement as to how the arms of Duke of Gloucester will descend, but current thinking (& unless decreed otherwise) is that the 2nd Duke of Gloucester's coat of arms will be transmitted in the normal fashion, ie. according to the laws of arms of England. If this is what you mean by doubted and contested please say so aloud, so that all can understand? I trust that you will feel inclined to reply to me before posting any messages elsewhere on Wiki. Un grand merci, L'honorable (discuter) 23 mars 2017 à 06:56 (CET)
PS. in any event, I sincerely hope that it is noted that I am & continue to make considerable factual contributions to the content of Wiki, despite best efforts of others to the contrary. Thus, Heralder, you will fully understand why I seek to know whether you are onside. RSVP.

cc : Parair

qte

Condado del Ulster

Estimado Heralder: Como bien sabes, solo los príncipes del Reino Unido pueden usar las armas del soberano con su correspondiente brisura, concedida por patente de armas por el propio monarca. En este caso, el conde del Ulster (al no ser miembro de la familia real, ni tener título de príncipe ni tratamiento de alteza real, por no ser nieto del monarca) no puede usar las armas plenas de su padre y, de menos todavía, sin brisar. Podría usarlas combinadas con las de su madre, pero como bien indicas, por ahora es especulativo, mientras no se le conceda un escudo propio. Por lo tanto creo que las versiones primeras que hiciste de los escudos de los condes del Ulster (combinación de armas paternas y maternas) son las más correctas. Yo abogaría por dejarlas así. Un saludo cordial. --Echando una mano (discuter) 01:52, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

PS: En cuanto al escudo de lady Gabriella, no creo que sea correcto en absoluto. Un saludo cordial,--Echando una mano (discuter) 01:55, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

PS2: Sobre ese escudo te comentaba aquí arriba: no creo que sea correcto (no es alteza real, ni princesa, ni miembro de la familia real y no se le ha concedido el uso mediante patente real). Un saludo cordial, --Echando una mano (discuter) 02:01, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

Estimado Heralder: Como todo aquello que no ha sido autorizado desde el College of Arms, no deja de ser un ejercicio de imaginación que queda a la libre interpretación y buen saber del artista, en este caso tú mismo. Por eso me parecen más acertados los primeros modelos que hiciste y que me pareció correcto recuperar. Puedes solicitar que se renombren y pongan un "posible" o algo similar. Un saludo cordial. --Echando una mano (discuter) 02:08, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

Como te parezca mejor, pero ha sido un trabajo excelente (como todos los tuyos) y me parece una pena eliminarlos. Por eso decía apostillarlos con "posibles armas" o algo por el estilo, pero como autor que eres, queda en tus manos. Un saludo cordial, --Echando una mano (discuter) 02:14, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

Muchas gracias a ti por tu tiempo. Y ya lo último, el escudo de lady Gabriella sería ese (por ser hija única) siempre que fuese heredera de los derechos del título de su padre... solo que su padre no tiene ningún título nobiliario, y además es príncipe del Reino Unido (armas reales brisadas); por tanto, no puede corresponderle a ella. Fíjate, por ejemplo, que los nietos por vía masculina de los reyes brisan con lambeles de cinco pies (mientras sus padres lo hacen con lambeles de tres pies), es decir, no usan las mismas armas paternas, ni siquiera el heredero del título. Disculpa el rollo. Un saludo cordial.--Echando una mano (discuter) 02:43, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

Aquí lo verás bastante bien explicado. Un saludo cordial, --Echando una mano (discuter) 03:00, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

unqte